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  1. #381
    Jake Lloyd in The Phantom Menace or Jake Lloyd in Jingle All The Way ?

  2. #382
    Rutger hauer was completely wasted in BB. I mean, the guy can act, he's an action man, and they stuck him behind a boardroom desk. gae him precious little to work with and his character came over rather dull and worthless.

    I still think the whole contrivance of the Wayne vaults containing exactly what Bruce needs at any given moment and Morgan freeman just idly sitting around waiting for bruce to ome calling is one of the movies major downpoints.

    Katie Holmes I can take or leave. I'd sooner watch katie than Kim Basinger anyhoo.

    I have a dislike of Liam Neeson. It's hard to separate the man from his characters. thus I gain no pleasure from watching him onscreen. And that whole bruce in the wildernes section never did it for me. the idea was there but the way it played out seemed a bit forced and frankly a bit dull. The movie only worked for me when we were back in Gotham and Bruce was kicking butt.

    Michael Caine surprised me. I thought he was a bad choice for Alfred but now i think he did ok. given a further movie and a chance to expand his character and gel more with Bale i think he may become my definitive Alfred.

    Bale himself. I'm still undecided really. I know it was supposed to be a darker Bruce, but it felt a bit flat to me. the broodiness was there but he doesn't seem very expressive. and because of that not very engaging. again a further movie with room to breathe and inhabit the role may change my mind.

    if the movie was trying to give a more comic book feel graphically then i think it failed. If it was trying to be cleer with dialogue then it definitely failed. If it was trying to reinvent the wheel it failed. If like with star wars the best is yet to come and this was just the entree then whatever comes next really needs to be extra amazingly good or the whole thing will just die a death.

    I think what really bothers me is the lack of fluidity to the movie. it feels very much like a bunch of set pieces linked with bothersom dramatic dialogue bits. The set pieces are all fine but it's the dramatic glue that binds them all together that seems lacking. which by contrast is completely the opposite of Ang Lee's Hulk movie. where the drama is good and the action sequences are crap.

    It's be interesting to see what Ang Lee made of batman. I get the feeling he'd actually have done a good job and it would have been a world he could inhabit and really get to grips with.

  3. #383
    How much of it is the director (who usually gets all the credit) or the writer who really puts the story together? I don't think Nolan or Lee are writers, and they can influence what happens after the fact of what is on the written page (Bryan Singer for that matter as well).

    I think the story and the script are the most important. I have to say that the Spider-Man films have excelled there and have been top notch. Smallville's Miles Milar and Al Gogh did Spider-Man 2 (Dr. Octopus) and the story it told made it rock. Sure Sam Raimi came through immensely bringing out of it a great execution - but it could have been a cartoon (or even a comic book you had to turn pages with) and Milar & Gogh's story would have set an industry standard at a new high.

    In terms of Batman Begins, it is excellent. I don't know how much was new contribution by the story and screenplay writer, and what is original Bob Kane (though I suspect it's mostly Kane's work revisited). This is pefectly traditional and really worked for this movie. Actually, that being said, even Doc Oc might be more Stan Lee than Milar & Gogh.

    Some of the super-hero films have just been awesome. Others like X3 seem to have fell from those standards their predacessors have set.

    The Hulk was great drama by the way, and I agree with Jargo's assesment about the action sequences versus the drama and the comic-book frame use in the movie was quite creative and original. (At least I hadn't seen that done before).

    As to Chuxter's comment that Katie Holmes is insane now and can't groom herself? I have no comment. I haven't seen her in much, don't pay much attention to the tabloids (and if I do, I'm more interested in what the girls-gone-wild are doing than the married couples - like the new "no panties epidemic" that's gripped Spears, Lohan, and hopefully Hilton - maybe I've missed that picture - though those are not the girls I'd be interested in and yeah, I would turn them down....uh probably. I think I might have a weakness for Lohan or Hilton. Talk about insanity...) But wasn't the topic Batman Begins? Dang. How easy it is to get me off-topic. Well, if Katie Holmes goes wild, she'd make my "b-list." But I haven't paid her much mind and I wasn't a Dawson's Creek viewer, though in passing, I did think she was cute on that show in a gee-would-it-be-fun-to-be-a-sex-offender-kind-of-way.
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  4. #384
    Keaton's detective work in the '89 film is minimal, we don't even see the batcomputer come up with it, the solution is kind of pulled out of thin air and thus we get only the briefest mention of him being a detective. In BB though, we see him investigating and interrogating, following leads, and collecting evidence though sub-legal channels.

    As to my post on page 22 (it's on page 11 for Tycho because he's viewing 20 per page rather than the forum default of 10-per-page, I guess), they were able to use almost everything in BB the right way, the car wasn't even designed for Batman's use and had very few gimmicks beyond being tough and fast, the outfit wasn't just a dopey rubber muscle suit, they worked to explain everything's origin in a logical manner and used only a couple gadgets. The one thing I had to get past was the cowl, which is too rubbery and sculpted too corny. Still, the movie DOES get past all that somehow to feel just right, probably by showing the genesis of each and the logic with which Bruce chooses 'em.

    One cool thing I read about the costume really is true:
    To best pose as Batman, Bale studied graphic novels and illustrations of the superhero. Nolan said that Bale succeeded in his intimidating pose, recalling, "Everyone on set felt quite a charge when Christian would walk on in the Batsuit." Bale had a love-hate relationship with the suit, which had often sent him into foul moods, helping him transform into Batman. Bale said, "Batman's meant to be fierce, and you become a beast in that suit, as Batman should be not a man in a suit, but a different creature."
    Bale has some really awesome poses in the movie, he moves and stalks and even panics in the suit like the character rather than a Godzilla-reject.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  5. #385
    In my last post, I got very distracted and never finished my thought, it was that I felt the casting of Christian Bale as Batman was all wrong - the guy doesn't have the right look or voice, both of which he has are more working class and fairly specific - but his ACTING owned that part almost perfectly both in and out of the suit which won me over, just as Keaton had done in '89... I remember seeing a very early trailer for that Batman film with my mom in '88 and we were at a restaurant afterwards still talking about that casting and even whether or not we had even really seen what we had seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Chuxter View Post
    I could forgive even her casting. She did a decent job, and that final scene where it's obviously chilly is quite a beautiful shot.
    I couldn't forgive her casting, she is the one truly weak spot in the movie and it'd be just as good a film if she were edited out entirely. She's already done other movies showing off her implants, so the addition here was just to sucker a few extra guys into the theater.

    Katie Holmes is to me a generic, babyfaced, crooked-smile-wearing TV actress with extremely limited range. She's cute in some light but not really anything noteworthy, and while a cameo I suppose wouldn't be too bad, she really shouldn't have anything to do with the next film. It would be bad for the plot, she's already rejected Bruce and has her own life to lead anyway, Bruce has let her go as well, it'd be a pointless side trip to focus on ADA Rachel Dawes again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketboy View Post
    I just think think she's a terrible actress. I don't see why she was cast in a movie with so many great actors. She's the Jake Llyod of the film.
    That's not fair.... Jake Lloyd was a pretty good kid actor until Lucas got his mitts on the boy.


    Quote Originally Posted by MR. DADDYPANTS View Post
    Rutger hauer was completely wasted in BB. I mean, the guy can act, he's an action man, and they stuck him behind a boardroom desk. gae him precious little to work with and his character came over rather dull and worthless.
    I think he did ok with the meager part they gave him, I was disappointed that they cast him at all merely because it signaled the character's evil intent, I would have been more impressed if they cast him but then he hadn't been a scuzzbag.

    I have a dislike of Liam Neeson. It's hard to separate the man from his characters. thus I gain no pleasure from watching him onscreen.
    I thought he was brilliant here, he was such a great casting choice for Ra's al Ghul and I liked his performance a lot, he didn't hold back anything and play it gentlemanly the way he did with Qui-Gon and some of the other characters he's played lately, he went more for the throat with it and I found it a perfect fit.

    Michael Caine surprised me. I thought he was a bad choice for Alfred but now i think he did ok.
    I feel the same way, Alfred is more upper-class and refined, Caine is more lower-class and raw, yet he did a good job with it and ended up nearly owning this part as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
    How much of it is the director (who usually gets all the credit) or the writer who really puts the story together? I don't think Nolan or Lee are writers, and they can influence what happens after the fact of what is on the written page (Bryan Singer for that matter as well).
    Like I told you in the Transformers movie thread, it differs from director to director. With BB, Nolan was passionate that this would be done right and he worked hand in hand co-writing the screenplay with David Goyer, Christopher Nolan helmed BB very well. I dunno who "Lee" is that you are referring to though, do you somehow mean editor Lee Smith?

    I think the story and the script are the most important. I have to say that the Spider-Man films have excelled there and have been top notch.
    A great script can be done in by an inept director or by a meddling studio. IMO, the director has to have passion and understanding and direction for the work in order for it to shine.

    Sure Sam Raimi came through immensely bringing out of it a great execution - but it could have been a cartoon (or even a comic book you had to turn pages with) and Milar & Gogh's story would have set an industry standard at a new high.
    Gough and Millar have been writing partners for a decade, and a lot of their previous projects have been utter dreck, such as the Timecop tv series and Lethal Weapon 4. Talent isn't enough, passion isn't enough, drive isn't enough, there has to be an excellence of execution to make a TV or movie project like that work.

    In terms of Batman Begins, it is excellent. I don't know how much was new contribution by the story and screenplay writer, and what is original Bob Kane (though I suspect it's mostly Kane's work revisited).
    Batman Begins was written by director Nolan and the talented David Goyer (of the "Blade" movies and shows), the movie borrows from Frank Miller's classic "Batman: Year One" as well as Jeph Loeb's "Batman: Long Halloween" (Jeph Loeb wrote and produced some of "Smallville", and now is a producer on "Heroes") and "Batman: The Man who Falls" - all of those came after Miller's perennial classic 1986 "The Dark Knight Returns", the Batman book that changed comics forever (and also sorta ruined comic collecting ).


    Tycho, by bringing up the Christian Bale thread, I had to merge the 2 threads, now it's a big mess.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

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