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  1. #31
    Originally posted by bigbarada
    However this guy I worked with was totally convinced it was real and that the end of the world is near. Oh well, as the movie "The Messenger" said, "You know how simple people are. Always ready to believe any old prophecy."
    The thing that's great about that page is it shows how easy it is to write something that sounds like Nostradamus! I actually read a bit of his stuff in my first year of college. It's so broad and hard to understand (I'm sure something gets lost in the translation to English). Because it's so broad, and the quatrains don't seem to follow a chronological order, you really can make it sound like almost anything.

    Hearing about survivors being pulled from the wreckage today made me feel good. It's amazing to me that they lived, and held on for two days like that. Let's hope there's more.

  2. #32
    Jargo, your talking to me like I actually decided to go to war with these countries. I want nothing to do with this conflict, because in the end there will be another terrorist group who will take over were bin Laden left off. I just wanted to express my hope that if we do get involved in a destructive conflict then hopefully it at least results in bin Laden and his followers being neutralized. I'm fully aware that he's not the only terrorist organization on the planet. However, I must follow my orders, if for no other reason than desertion in a time of war could be punishable by death. I remember hearing a quote from Babylon 5 saying, "The avalanche has started, the pebbles can no longer vote." I'm just a pebble in all this. There are massive wheels in motion as we speak and the fate of the world is being decided for us.

  3. #33
    Jargo, no one wants to go to war, but it wasn't us that rammed three passenger jets into buildings. They started it. Period. If those lunatics actually have some kind of reasonable goal to achieve, any reasonable person would have been able to see that something of this magnitude would be counter productive to achieving it. Clearly, this people are neither reasonable nor to be reasoned with. They may seem intelligent, but any intelligent being would have foreseen the world community backing us up. They are the ones instigating the conflict. They are bringing this upon themselves. You couldn't possibly sit back and imply that we should too? You think these "people" should just get away with it this time? Be loose to do it again?! That's almost as insane as what they're up to. While we're at it, why not just open up those vials of the Black Plague. I mean, you know, why perpertrate violence on an organism? There'll be more to come. Cancer, AIDS, etc. Why bother stopping one when more are coming down the road? Is that what you're getting at? That is insane.

    Yes there are alternatives to war, but the world is waiting for that wisdom. It's easy to say, but what are your ideas? We've tried diplomacy with the guy. We've tried keeping tabs on his activities ourselves. The Afghan gvnt even claimed that they would keep him under control. Boy, all those "alternatives" have really worked out well. Just how many more people have to die before it'll be okay to go in and wipe him off the face of the planet? Another 10,000? Will that be enough? For god sakes, 1 should be the limit before a "human" gets the boot.

    Nobody wants a war. We've all got our lives that we're living, peacefully, with friends and family. Going to work, coming home, engaging in our favorite hobbies and pasttimes. These are the evil things that we are being "punished" for. They hate us because those things are evil to them. Anyone out there feel free to explain how that could be. Never mind. I'll answer it -- because they are fanatical zealots using religion as an excuse to hate and commit violence. That's why they exist... to hate. That's why we must destroy them.

  4. #34
    Nothing was done about the attack on the U.S.S. Cole. Doing nothing is not an option. We are lucky to have rubble to sift through for survivors. Anyone who would use commercial planes as weapons of mass destruction, would not think twice about setting off a nuke on American soil, or using biological or chemical warfare. They must be stopped. They set the bar very high with this mission in their holy war. Should we wait and see if their next attack destroys 6 buildings, or if they decide to take out an entire city, or worse?

    I am not saying that we attack them in haste. Let us gather massive amounts of intelligence on their location, their hiding places, the depth of their organization(s), their resources, and their supporters. When we are satisfied that they have nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, and no one willing to support them at cost of being associated with them. At that point (and not one second later) we should wipe out their organization, and its supporters in their entirety.

    The rules have changed. Traveling by plane will never be the same. Immigration will never be the same. Our very sense of national security has changed. Those are just a few obvious examples of things that changed on September 11th. Feel free to add to this list.

    A formal declaration of war is irrelevant. The lunatics that destroyed the twin towers are the instigators of this insanity. We are a part of it whether we like it or not. We can't bury our heads in the sand and pretend it didn't happen, or that it won't happen again. A holy war has been declared in the mid-east and their goal is the annihilation of the United States, and it's allies.

    Nothing about this gives me any kind of pleasure. My mind conjures up thoughts of WW3, and the prophecies of the book of Revelations. I have a family, a wife and 2 children. I miss my security. Madmen stole it from me a couple of days ago. They stole the lives of thousands. Their supporters reveled in the success of their mission. Previous terrorist attacks were perpetuated by monsters that took just as much satisfaction in the carnage they were responsible for. I hate what we must do.
    ubi mel ibi apes

  5. #35
    Sean the Hutt
    Guest
    Yes, Anyone who does not believe that these people will indeed set off Nyclear weapons is living in a dream world. There are 146000 tons of plutonium sitting around in Russia. Do not think that some has not dissapeared. We have a problem here people. I don't like war either. It is the dirty part of humanity. However after the other day our Children will]may never know a truely secure day. The ramafacations of this are so deep it is too hard to get a grasp of. The world is different my friends. I will not say " good bye untill better times," Instead I will say," hello my Brother Americans, I have never felt as close to all of you as I do these days. All of our Silly squabbles seem shallow and Petty, We have it in our power to unite in diversity." Diversity is our best asset.

  6. #36
    Conventional warfare is not the answer, wiping Afghanistan off the map will not bring back our dead, will kill many innocent people, will put the lives of thousands of America's servicemen and women in harm's way, and all the while will most likely serve to empower the terrorists who survive to commit more sickeningly-spectacular acts of terror via the "hydra" effect (where you cut off one head and another grows). Killing those who committed or played a part in these terrible acts won't stop terrorism, we don't need a bigger military effort, we need a smarter one who can take these criminals ALIVE so vital information on other terrorists and planned terrorism acts can be extracted from these sons of *****es. When you involve yourself with killing thousands of innocent civilians, you throw away your human rights and deserve to be used as a tool against terrorism -- sodium pentathol is a powerful motivator, and I've heard the CIA has experts at loosening tongues. No, we don't need to make a big stupid war showing where we wipe out innocent civilians, we need to strike smart and covertly and use these people against the evils they promote.

    Do you think if these terrorists could get nuclear or chemical weapons into the US and be able to use them, that they would have flown planes into the WTC and the Pentagon? Of course not, they'd just set off their ultimate devices of terror and be done with it; but obviously they saw these awful options as being far too difficult and used our own easily-accessed tools of destruction against us -- and those jet planes were tools of destruction. Nothing else - outside military hardware and large explosive devices - could have done the damage these commercial jets were tragically capable of, and clearly the security to these jets was far too easy to breach.

    I know these are times of fear right now, but we have to try to remain calm and cool and reasonable. If we respond with brute force against a whole country, we will not win the war against terrorism and we will simply be giving in to feelings of vengence, not justice. We need to make smart decisions from here on in and not let the terrorists win, we can't give in to the terror. We should demand justice for all involved with committing these deplorable tragedies, but we should remain superior in honor and civility.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  7. #37
    updates:

    - CNN is reporting that all 18 hijacking subjects have been identified and their site has a list of the suspects names.

    - The US Senate voted 98 to 0 approving the use of force in retaliation. (this happened within the past 10 minutes)

    - Both black boxes from the jet that crashed into the Pentagon have been recovered and are being analyzed.

    - Bush approves the Defense Department's request to callup 50,000 military reservists.(this happened within the past 30 minutes)

    - Detainees from yesterday's opening of airports have been cleared and released.

    - At Phoenix's Skyharbor Airport, 3 Northwest Airlines employees did an unauthorized test of a security checkpoint and each breached the point - one with a corkscrew, one with a pocket knife, and a pilot passing through without proper ID. Once they did this, they turned around and pointed out the breaches to security. A Skyharbor spokesperson also said that that they ask that NOBODY should intentionally try to break security. A different Skyharbor spokesperson said that the matter was referred to the FAA.

    - There are conflicting reports about the 5 firefighters rescued yesterday. CNN is saying that a spokesperson for the fire department claims that this did not happen and was just a rumor, however MSNBC claims 2 firefighters were rescued, not 5, and Fox News had interviews with rescue workers who claimed they pulled those 5 firefighters from the wreckage themselves. There is also some confusion about how long these firefighters were there before they were rescued.

    - There are increasing numbers of hate crimes against Arab-Americans and people of the Muslim faith being reported. Tragic that fear and anger have turned some Americans into terrorists themselves.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  8. #38
    As so much email is forwarded these days, this ended up in my mailbox yesterday. I think that it expresses the feelings of many Americans and others around the world:

    Leonard Pitts-STAR LEDGER
    September 12, 2001

    We'll go forward from this moment

    It's my job to have something to say.

    They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which
    troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering.

    You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard.

    What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn?

    Whatever it was, please know that you failed.

    Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause.

    Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.

    Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.

    Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome
    family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae-a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready
    availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though-peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God.

    Some people-you, perhaps-think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals.

    Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock.
    We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history of
    the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before.

    But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice.

    I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as
    you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future.

    In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation,
    fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably
    determined.

    You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold.

    As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as
    Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish.

    So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started.

    But you're about to learn.

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