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  1. #1

    I still think Dooku is Anakin's Dad and Han Solo is a new kind of Clone Trooper

    The more I think about it, this is another case of being misled or lied to before we see the movie to keep some surprise left in it.


    Dooku is Anakin's Dad period.


    Empire Strikes Back: "I am your father."

    Luke: "Ben, why didn't you tell me?!"

    ROTJ: Palpatine: "Now fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side."


    Revenge of the Sith

    Palpatine: "I'm sorry Anakin, but the late Count Dooku was your father."

    Anakin: "Mace! Why didn't you tell me?!"

    Palpatine: "Now fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side.



    Palpatine's seen this all before. That's exactly why he's so overconfident about Luke turning to the Dark Side in ROTJ.


    They have pickup shots they've been doing, and when they made ESB, it was very closely guarded and David Prowse didn't even know until he saw the movie.

    In ROTJ, the scenes with Vader unmasked - again, almost no one knew. 4-5 people comprised the whole crew including Hamill and Shaw when the final scene was made.


    Mark my words:

    1) Dooku is Anakin's father and Anakin kills him without ever knowing and when he finds out the Jedi lied to him, it throws him over the edge. It's the only obvious way for the story to proceed.

    2) Han Solo is a new kind of Clone Trooper who's programming as a child was interrupted, causing him to develop personality, morals, and independence "he's Solo."


    Do this: Watch Episode 1 and assume two things:

    1) Shmi Skywalker is lying about Anakin's father. How does she act when observing Qui-Gon's curiousity about her child? If she'd known Dooku 9 years ago, wouldn't she have already heard of Qui-Gon Jinn, even if she'd never met him? Could that have helped her decide to let Anakin go with him?


    2) the midichlorian blood test results will become known to Mace and Yoda that Anakin is Dooku's child by some point before the Theed Celebration (doesn't really affect TPM movie, but plays a part in E3).


    Watch Episodes 4,5 and 6.

    1) Assume Han Solo is a Clone - the kind used for classic Stormtroopers.
    2) Recollect that Boba Fett is an obsolete Clone - the Mandalorian kind killed off and replaced by other types during the Clone Wars.

    3) Consider Boba's pride in his father. What would he think of the new Stormtroopers, and especially a Rebel and criminal like Han Solo?

    Come back and tell me how you felt characters responded and acted during the movies if you considered these things were going on.

  2. #2

    Re: I still think Dooku is Anakin's Dad and Han Solo is a new kind of Clone Trooper

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycho
    They have pickup shots they've been doing, and when they made ESB, it was very closely guarded and David Prowse didn't even know until he saw the movie.

    In ROTJ, the scenes with Vader unmasked - again, almost no one knew. 4-5 people comprised the whole crew including Hamill and Shaw when the final scene was made.
    I touched on some of your other points in a separate thread, but as to these above...

    They kept the "secret" from Prowse because he was a blabbermouth. Every good movie has an awesome "twist" that nobody sees coming and for ESB, the "father" thing was it. Lucas simply gave Prowse dummy dialogue so he wouldn't leak it out before the movie was finished.

    Again, in ROTJ, the unmasking ranks up there with the secrecy thing. Just like any kind of superhero story, we all want to know who's in there. Keeping the crew small was the best way to ensure that as little as possible would get out to the public before release.

    So, no "story" conspiracies here. Just pragmatic marketing decisions.

  3. #3
    Right. Which is why they might hold several things secret now: namely dialogue:

    The revelation that Dooku was Anakin's father. (Takes less than 10 seconds to say the words, but has 6+ hours of movie consequences thereafter, if Anakin's given some real motivation to turn to the Dark Side, such as the Jedi lying to him about his family - which as we've seen already with Anakin's mom - family is what is most important to him).

    An 11 year old kid (just like Danny Logan who played Fett in E2) getting detached from his Clone-Educational-Control-Unit and making a moral decision based on independent thinking and maybe uttering a wise-crack in the process like "Maybe you'd like it back in your cell, Your Highness?" He's possibly a tag-along for the ride role like baby Boba Fett was, but ultimatey getting lost and left alone to fend for himself. Probably no more than 5 minutes screen time total. So many seconds here, so many seconds there.

    A cameo appearance by Harrison Ford for 10 seconds: while Chancellor Palpatine or Grand Moff Tarkin nod at approval at the Non-Speaking Ford "Your clones are very impressive. They'll do their job well." These 10 seconds and Harrison Ford (who is good friends with George Lucas and doens't have to be PAID or credited for 10 seconds of screen time beyond what? The Acting Guild's standard day for a background extra?) creates 6 hours of implications for the Classic Trilogy via this 10 second cameo.

    That's what's so cool about Star Wars. The possibilities are wonderful.

    This is what I would do were I writing Episode 3, and I think this adds new dimension to all the characters involved and is the most logical route to go with it.

  4. #4

    Re: I still think Dooku is Anakin's Dad and Han Solo is a new kind of Clone Trooper

    I'm pretty sure that in ROTS we find out about Anakin's father. Rick McCallum said at Comic-Con that people who didn't like the midi-chlorian conception deal wouldn't have a problem after Episode III. And in TPM, no one outright said he was conceived by the midi-chlorians (Qui-Gon only said it was possible).

    Now, I don't know if Dooku is Anakin's father, I'm going for the Palpatine route. Either way would be fine. Who knows, it could still be Qui-Gon.

    I still don't like the idea of Han Solo being a clone.

  5. #5

    Re: I still think Dooku is Anakin's Dad and Han Solo is a new kind of Clone Trooper

    Quite an imagination there Tycho. I'm of the belief that Palpatine is Anakin's father. That's if we're given to grandiose conjecture. Heh heh. nice theories though.

    I don't for a minute believe Han is a clone. That would deflate the OT for me big time.
    Move along, move along

  6. #6

    Re: I still think Dooku is Anakin's Dad and Han Solo is a new kind of Clone Trooper

    This reply has 2 parts: Han's history (EU and movie) and first:

    Han's setup:

    Han wears black and white (vest and shirt) like a Clone. Colors do matter.
    Han has blue pants (like Clone Pilots have blue stripes). Han has a red bloodstripe (EU aside, this is like Clone Captains).

    Every wardrobe change Han has, he wears something close to black and white. When he's a general, he has gold stripes (like a Clone Commander).

    Boba Fett is Han's chief rival (like Vader is Luke's nemesis).

    Boba Fett is a singularly unique Clone, unlike any of the others.

    Han SOLO is a solo-unique Clone, unlike any of HIS others. (read the EU part about Denn Solo, Thracken Sal-Solo, etc. to see how it is all still possible).


    Boba Fett is unique because Jango requested a son to raise himself. "Slave-One." Clones are sort of slaves if you use that connotation. They aren't independent but obedient. Jango doesn't own his clones, but his son is his own.

    Han is unique because he got separated from his Clone compatriots (based off a new breed since Jango was dead and fresh DNA running out). Han raised himself (along with Garris Shrike and Dewlanna to bring in Expanded Universe)

    BOTH Han and Boba Fett:

    have unconventional customized ships
    are the quickest draws in a gun battle from across the galaxy
    are dispassioned mercenaries out for a paycheck
    are not officially Rebel or Imperial - just work for them (until ROTJ for Han)
    were survivors: from being orphaned at an early age.
    wear Clone Trooper rank colors
    know about hiding on the back of Imperial cruisers (in asteroid fields, whatever)
    always know how to adapt (Han using the TaunTaun to save Luke)
    one rescues, one brings in bounties - both find and locate others

    Fett and Han are extreme rivals:

    Fett sees Han's line as replacing and making obsolete the promise of a new Mandalorian Army. All the new Clones are not of Jango and they are not wearing Mandalorian armor anymore (like E2 Clone Troopers do).

    Fett was made to be indpendent: Han is a fluke from that replacement line and "in Fett's opinion" should have obeyed his programming, but instead is especially threatening becauce Han "takes orders from just one person - [himself]"


    Han's history.

    50 years before TPM

    Denn Solo and his wife leave Corellia to try to make their living prospecting on one of the outer planets in the system. They have twin kids: a boy and a girl.

    Bad blood in the family - perhaps over the inheritance of a wealthy estate on Corellia, earns the wrath of the homocidal Solo-The Black - a dangerous pirate and a cousin of Denn's.

    30 years before TPM

    The family is tracked down where they are hiding out and attacked in an invasion by pirates bent on taking control over a defenseless colony.

    The mother, "Grandma" Gamma-Solo gets sent away with their daughter Tion so that the father, Granpa Denn can try and lead his rival cousin away from his family.

    Tion inherits the Solo estate, marries a "Sal," and has a son: Thracken Sal-Solo.


    Denn flees with his son and they handle affairs with Solo The Black, their evil cousin.

    The son is either corrupted or orphaned and becomes a mercenary.

    44 years later (14 years after TPM) the son is the mercenary hired to be the source of DNA for the Republics continued need for a Clone Army. (Harrison Ford is cast for 10 seconds in a non-speaking walk-on for this role).


    23 years before A New Hope, just after Jango's death, TK-241 is created. He resembles a perfect Clone of Denn Solo's son. He begins training to fight droids during the Clone Wars.

    18 years before A New Hope, TK-421 is 11 years old, physically and mentally speaking, when the chaos of war break him off from his training unit and leaves him orhpaned. He's chronologically only 5, but growth accelerated.

    Garris Shrike a slave-trader finds him on Corellia as TK-421's memory starts to develop. He calls him "Han" - possibly because Garris knew who Han's father was.

    With the help of his Wookiee surrogate mother, Han escapes slavery and grows up working for the Hutts as a smuggling pilot. He tries to save enough money to create a false identity that would let him go to the Imperial Academy as he was bred to want order in his life. He doens't remember (perhaps) that he was supposed to be a stormtrooper. Instead he wanst to be a TIE pilot. The Chewbacca rescue (when Han's a young officer at age 23) changes a lot of things.

    The rest you all know.


    That's how I'd have coordinated it all.

    Why else would Lucas not allow EU authors to write stories about Han's mother and father, where he came from etc?

    Han is the last remaining main-character without his backstory closed (except for Palpatine and Yoda perhaps)

    In mythology, the heroes are all arch-types that meet their destiny. Some fans want Han to be "just a regular guy." I don't think SW is "just a regular story."

    That is all part of the coincidence in fantasy:

    a scared lion
    a rusting Tin Man
    a little girl
    a dog
    a scarecrow that's brave - all go off to find the Wizard of Oz.


    A farmboy with a famous father
    a young Princess-senator
    an ex-Clone Soldier
    a "dog"
    a Tin Man (or 2) - all go off to find the Justice of The Force.


    The regular guy just doesn't fit in there.

    Star Wars is "realistic" in its background - the used universe look.

    Nothing is said about not having fate, coincidence, and arch-types that all fulfill some destiny they were made for though.

  7. #7

    Re: I still think Dooku is Anakin's Dad and Han Solo is a new kind of Clone Trooper

    Tycho my man you never cease to amaze me. When I first read this thread title I thought you may have gone over the edge in the way of sanity. Is everything you wrote from books or did you just infer it all? After reading that last thread I would believe almost anything you said.

    What's that you want to trade the Eiffel Tower to me for an SA Clone Trooper sure.
    Up, up, and OKAAAAY!!!

  8. #8

    Re: I still think Dooku is Anakin's Dad and Han Solo is a new kind of Clone Trooper

    Everything I wrote is from conjecture as well as some discussion with others that took to my theory.

    Han's history is written out in the best 3 Star Wars books I EVER read:

    Ann Crispin's Han Solo Trilogy:

    The Paradise Snare
    The Hutt Gambit
    Rebel Dawn



    Paradise Snare starts with Han at age 19, but you'll see some flashbacks to younger times. You seem him get his start with Jabba and join the Empire.

    The Hutt Gambit starts after a deliberate gap in the story: mainly sometime while Han was 23 he met Chewie. In Hutt Gambit, he and Chewie are already working together, and Han has been kicked out of the Empire's Service. He'll become a target of Boba Fett's and become the best of friends with Lando Calrissian.

    Rebel Dawn finds Han at age 28 (after the Brian Daley Han Solo adventures) and he discovers that his ex-girlfriend that he risked the wrath of the Hutts and Boba Fett over has joined the Rebellion. You actually see the Rebellion formed as Bail Organa, Garm Bel Ibis of the Corellian Resistance, and Mon Mothma lay out plans to attack the Empire. (ANH was their first victory).
    Han has to dump a cargo of Jabba's spice in the process, and gets bounty hunters after him. The story leads right up to the point where Chewbacca brings Obi-Wan to Han's favorite table in the Mos Eisley Cantina.

    The rest is in the movies

  9. #9

    Re: I still think Dooku is Anakin's Dad and Han Solo is a new kind of Clone Trooper

    I've put this theory forth in at least 2 different threads over the past 2 years and no-one's even replied to it

    I take it one step firther, though, buy roping in the "Mace is a bad guy and always was the second Sith with Palpatine as his master" theory as well, might as well post it here, the thread only has to last for a few more months

    Anything in the first 2 films that would make that impossible???
    Something about him reminds me of my older brother, Rex.

  10. #10

    Re: I still think Dooku is Anakin's Dad and Han Solo is a new kind of Clone Trooper

    Quote Originally Posted by mabudon
    I've put this theory forth in at least 2 different threads over the past 2 years and no-one's even replied to it

    I take it one step firther, though, buy roping in the "Mace is a bad guy and always was the second Sith with Palpatine as his master" theory as well, might as well post it here, the thread only has to last for a few more months

    Anything in the first 2 films that would make that impossible???
    Nothing is impossible...however, plausible is something else. As described at length (and summarily rationalized away), the idea that Dooku fathered Jake-akin gets silly when you start to analyze the Rube-Goldberian process that it took to find him and whisk him off the planet.

    As far as the Mace scenario goes, it too lacks from any kind of plausible setup. If Episode III were to show us that he is suddenly evil, no doubt the audience would be left scratching it's head wondering where it came from.

    And the Han thing goes beyond silly to absurd. While a "fantasy" story could use the name (Solo) to justify this, frankly, it's just stupid beyond words. Besides that, there is nothing...NOTHING...no payoff whatsoever in the OT to make this kind of revelation necessary or relevant to the overall story. It comes off more like a pun (Solo, get it...Sooo loooo ...hardee har har) that should be left to the joke page in the Insider instead of being turned into a plot point in the Saga itself.

    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

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